Transcript

Andrew

Why was it hard to let go of queer identification?

Christie

I remember.

Andrew

What did you get out of it?

Christie

Yeah, I. Well, for me, I did not know who I was. Like this question of who am I? You know, it's such. I did not know who I would be if I walked away from the same sex world. And I had no I. It was terrifying to me to not know that. I remember I was in this one prayer session. You perceive it as a chasm. We don't think my friends would look at me and go, oh, I can totally see how an ordered you would look. I mean, I had no vision for it whatsoever. Yeah. And so for me to lay down and I'm not gonna lie, was just.

Andrew

The absence of identity.

Christie

It was. Yeah. And I had put that identity on, and it was such a comfortable cloak. It was. So I was at ease with it and and all of the different parts. I was even comfortable with people hating me for being a lesbian. It's like, yeah, well, yeah, you know, that's just that, you know, that whole. So that was a lot to lay down for me.

Andrew

And, and I, as a Californian growing up, a precocious moral culture, beach culture. For me, that was identification. I, it wasn't like, yeah, you can shame me for it. You may not like me, but it gives me a gift I like. I liked weird queer stuff too. There was energy in that for me. And that's a uniquely Californian reality. It's like kind of be different. Just don't don't be like the vanilla and normal. So for me, like I thought, well, if I give this up, then what? What do I have?

Christie

And I think the thing that is interesting about that is that we had this conversation earlier about labels, the, the, the true life that Jesus has for us really does defy labels. And, and so for me, the label was comfortable. So I'm like looking at cute little blond Christian girl over there going, am I supposed to be her? Or am I supposed to be that Christian girl? Or is it that like I wanted to conform to something? There? Was I sort of the way I like to think about is I sort of saw myself as jelly, and I was like, which mold am I supposed to be pulled in? And if you take away my mold, then what happens?

Andrew

I'm like that's the I mean, I think it's enough to say I didn't know this Jesus. Enough to know who I was deeper than my kind of quirky, snarky social self. I didn't know well what who am I because I didn't know him. Right? I didn't know him. Yeah. So I think there's a link between a deeper awareness of who this living God is and who I am to be, and my extraordinary ness.

Amanda

Yeah I, I feel like this was difficult for me because I was afraid. I, I just had like a deep fear like who am I, who am I without woman and being in relationship with women in that way. I don't know who I am. And there is this deep like for me what felt like a black hole of like emptiness really that I was filling with women. And without that it felt honestly despairing.

And so I was terrified to let go of it. I think, God, that God has been faithful. But thinking of letting that go was like, I don't even know what I'll do, and I will not feel like I have a place of belonging, especially amongst women, because I did present myself a so, so masculine. Very much looked like a guy. And now I was like, okay, now I'm not supposed to like that.

But I had equated being a woman with, like, high heels and lipstick. So I'm like, well, I'm not that either. And to me that was like the epitome of what men wanted and the epitome of what was held up in our culture and not not knowing that I could never be that and didn't want to be brought this sense of like dread and like just honestly wanting to seek my, you know, my, my head in a hole. Right? So there was a deep fear that was there for me.

Christie

To get.

Andrew

That. Well, in line with that. What is it now, or historically even that has fed and still feeds your true self? And, what is it that, diminishes the queer self? So what feeds the true? What diminishes the the queer aspect or stronghold in you? The first thing that comes to mind is true community.

Morgan

Yeah. As iron sharpens iron. I mean, submitting myself to a community of people who know me well, men and women, who call out. You know, the truth is, parts of myself that that the Lord reveals to them. And, I continue to be a good gift to them. And they remind me of that.

And so that really helps diminish, so much of the anxiety slash temptation to look for comfort in and broken ways within my own with, with other men. And it's been a long time, but that was so critical. Back in the days when there was so much acting out and infidelity, even within marriage. Nobody knew me. Nobody really could walk with me because of the silence in my. You know, I just didn't. I just hid.

And so for me, that community has made all the difference in community over years and decades and decades. It's not a one time thing. It continues to me, no matter where I go. The church. Yeah, I agree with you. I think empowered community so helpful coupled with.

Marco

A development of. Personal. Power like a real I am. I'm setting my face on this and whenever I feel the queer full self wanting to emerge, I need to make a decision. I need to make a redemptive decision to not act in accord with that. L I. Love to cook. So like get some fun ingredients and. Make a cool. Meal, or enjoy a nice glass of wine or whatever. It really is about being okay in this body and not wishing I was an angel. You know, it's like, no, yeah, I'm here. I, I'm a person. I'm a sexual person. So I'm going to in moments of lean temptation, I'm going to try to feast on the good things. Right.

Andrew

Yeah. So I would just say no porn. Yeah. Get rid of porn. I mean, honestly, many of us at this table, only one person here has not been almost crippled by pornography. I'm kidding. I know the guys. At least porn is a big deal. Like, get down with it. Like it's poison. Yeah.

So when I'm dabbling or circling around and there's, like, so many gradients of unclean imagery and stuff, when I'm circling around that it like, fires up the old cell. It fires it like it poisons the true and like, like energizes the falls. And it's like, I've got holy fear of porn. It's like, no porn for me.

So I would just say that baseline and then just spending time with my wife, I just like, just be with her. Doesn't have to be intense. Just the real presence of this amazing partnership, to me, is the real.

Amanda

Yeah. Yeah. There was, there was times where I would, my emotional porn, I guess would be I would find this woman, my world. I would fantasize that she desired me trying to. It's like a medication to this deep rejection that I felt from women. And I would fantasize. She wants me. She. She loves me, and I would. And I would fantasies that in her presence.

And it was such a this thing that like really, really would mess me up. And I had to learn to be like, you know what you need to, like, walk away to remove yourself from the situation. Because she is is a stumbling block for you. Whether she knows or not. You need to remove yourself and then also like the community it.

Andrew

I also would say, as a Catholic, the Eucharist man that feeds my true self. More than anything, I honestly, I have to say that. And because I'm a convert and it was a costly conversion, the meal at the end of the road, which was also the beginning, has been such a powerful tool of integration for me because as a Catholic, I believe I'm actually in internalizing the healer and redeemer of my whole being, including my sexuality. So I would I would hand it off to the Eucharist and with that, it's throwing down the gantlet. Amen.

Marco

I sexually defined myself as a man. Made for a woman. A man who struggles with same sex attraction. I don't like all of the labels of, oh, I'm heterosexual or I'm homosexual or I'm bi. I think letting go of those labels is very helpful, especially in our Christian contexts. The anthropology is Genesis one and two is just so clear. I'm I'm a guy and she's a woman. And yes, we may have I may have vulnerabilities to experience same sex attraction, but that's not who I am, sexually speaking.

Amanda

I began to agree with how God made me, and that was real simple to me. Hard working it out, but simple as in my body speaks to who I am sexually so I can look at my body and know this is who I am. And the whole of me is who God seeks to sanctify. And I can trust him as I surrender myself to him.

Yes, for me to accept that I was made sexually as a woman meant that I had to now realize that I was made for man. And that was difficult for me because I didn't know if I would ever be with a man, or if I could be with a man.

But it gave me a lot of hope, because if my body speaks to I am a female sexually, which I operate out of that every day that I know that I was made for man. And my journey was to dignify and honor man. No matter if I got married or not.

Taylor

I used to identify as a bisexual woman, and today I identify as a good gift, created by God for him and for the other. So for the other, the opposite men. And, and my sexuality is a part of who I am. It's not. There's so many other parts of who I am. And I think I used to believe in the fact that, like, this is me, this is my identity, this is everything has to be because of this sexual identity that I used to identify with. And now it's like, know that we're all sexual beings. We're all relational beings. But it is I'm a good gift. I'm a child of God. I'm a daughter for his kingdom.

Yvonne

I define myself today as a a person who has value. I'm a woman who has something to bring to the table, and I, I define myself. Very much. By my value to God also. Just my creator made me on purpose, and that gives me an intrinsic place of value. I don't have to question why I'm on the planet. I exist because God wanted me to. And that gives me so much freedom to to say yes to being a gift, to say yes to being a blessing to people...

Daniel

I realize now that the Lord defines me as a man, a man of God, a real man. And for the longest time, I didn't really even think that it was good that I was a man, that I embraced this journey of connecting with the church and her healing community so that I would experience greater freedom so that I would know deep within, at the very core of my being, that it is good to be male, that it is good to be a human being, and that I make mistakes.

And that's okay. But I can work it out and take personal responsibility and get real about my life so that I'm changing and growing with others who are doing the same, who are saying, come, Lord, help me. And so we do it together. And for me, that has been such a wonderful thing in my life that I look back and say, God, thank you for community.

Bonnie

I sexually define myself. Now is a good gift from the Lord. A woman made in his image. And, And then that's a good thing. For the longest time, I had defined, myself as, kind of nebulous, like, not just not really feminine, but not really masculine, just kind of other. And so for the Lord to really bring, and hone that into it, to find a place to say, no, you were good gift. Your femininity is not a liability. It's a blessing. And it's, it's a beautiful gift that you can offer at the World.

Steve

I define myself as a male, a man, and I enjoy being a man. I enjoy the initiative. The assertion and the, meeting challenges the persevering through difficulties. I enjoy life like I never did until I gave up what I was settling for. Opening myself to the Lord. So, I mean, totally enjoying being a man. And I was so insecure earlier, so confused about my maleness.

I was in San Francisco for over 20 years and again, the Lord created a discontent in me over this time, and I saw in my self narcissism being stuck on one self and so aware of one's self and how others perceive me. And I saw that all around me and the homosexual man, that I encountered and so forth.

And God, by his grace, landed me in a church that where people were acknowledging their brokenness and seeking the Lord for healing and offering. Living waters is one of the tools. And, then I met a pastor who had come out of homosexuality himself to inspire me. I met a therapist who was willing to work with people with all my disorder. And it was it really inspired me. It was like a grand adventure. And the Lord just. Brought so many blessings as I started opening up to him.

Christie

I think the real sad truth about saying I'm just going to own my queer identity is that it's such a limiting stance. When I think about this idea of, having just settling for that, first of all, it's such a victory for Satan. Satan wants us all to give up. He wants us all to not be who were created to be. It's his goal. And it's not like the queer world has a corner on that, right?

Everybody, every Christian is under attack. Every Christian is told to settle. And and by Satan, I mean that's what his his whole strategy is. Don't become who you are. And so for us, if we say, I'm just going to stay queer, we're basically saying, I'm not going to become who God created me to be. I'm just going to sit here. That is an absolute win for the dark side.

I think that the the truth is we are capable of so much more when I look at the world and the level of love I was able to give when I was living in that identity compared to what I can give to my husband now, my community, now my children now.

Amanda

So there's camps within the Christian world that would want me to say I'm Christian in my sexual ethic. But then they would want me to hold on to the identity as, as queer. And I think that falls short and is a low ceiling. And for me, really the most important part of why I cannot identify and will not identify is queers. Because you, you actually act out of who you believe that you are.

And so I knew in Seasons of Temptation, if I mislabeled myself or misnamed myself, that was something that was not according to my body, that it would make those seasons of temptation harder for me. So I allow God to name me, and I can't believe my feelings, even when they are subjective about my body and about my attractions.

Taylor

I have being a being bisexual or queer, today would disintegrate every part of me. There is, I think I go back to when you've tasted and seen the goodness of God. You can't run away from it. And I I've done that. And it's the most draining, consuming process. Like intentionally walking away from what I know he's called me into and what he has for me. But, not trusting him and, and not wanting to hurt others.

And so, he's so patient, he's so kind, and he's so jealous. And, I couldn't I hated myself, I think I, like, went into self-hatred. I had to numb myself to find peace. I could not stay sober because I felt so shame and and, once I finally was surrendered, actually surrendered. That's the process of where, like, peace began again. And, his presence, he was always with me. I just fought it.

And, kind of integrating the parts of me that I was so disintegrated. And it's. He is I try to live my life according to where he's leading me. And, he will still speak even when he don't want to listen. He's still going to he's still going to point you in that direction. You're free to do what you want to do. But he's also very patient and kind, and he'll wait for you. And that's what he's did and continues to do.

Steve

I was very familiar with the gay, and because I had walked under it for years that this is who I am. I'm a homosexual. The word homosexual kept like ringing in my ears, and I realized, looking back on that period, that that was the enemy whispering in my ear to settle for something that was not of God. And, when I started rejecting that, yeah.

I up to that point, I was like, in a concrete case, the gay identity entrapped me and held me. I could not grow beyond it. But once I, started putting off the old self, having my mind renewed, putting on the new self created in God's image and righteousness and holiness. You know, this concrete case doesn't go away easily, but it sort of fades away as we don't give ground to it. And we start. I had to start surrounding myself with people who could influence me and help me support me in the process of becoming a man.

Yvonne

Assuming a queer identity. I really would feel it would be forsaking a significant part of myself that that will only come alive if I'm not living for someone else. It will only it will only come alive if I'm not living out of my need. And I'm not living out of a like a compulsive place of of just having to get some kind of emotional need met. I did live that way for a long time and and it didn't work. And it just hurt. It just led to pain.

Christie

There are times that I look at my husband and I'll just start crying when I think of what I could have settled for. When I think, oh, I could have given up and then I would not be here, I would not be, and I'm not finished, but I'm growing. And when I think, oh my word, how close I came to my mind, I'm sure in God's Word he doesn't think I came very close at all.

But in my mind I think, oh my gosh, I came so close to giving up and yet look at what God has done. There are times where my husband and I just look at each other and just go, I can't believe where I could have been. I'm grateful. You know, we got married a little older, so I can remember what singlehood was like, and I can imagine the trajectory of where my life would have gone.

And I think I wouldn't trade, I wouldn't trade this for anything. All of the pain, all of the trial, even all of the failure, if that's what it took to get me free as I am now that it is by far worth it, I would it just. I wouldn't trade it for the world.

The identity had become home.

Others who've faced the same questions, in frank dialogue and one-on-one interviews.

Why is letting go of a queer identity so hard, even when you want to? Because the identity has become home. An honest conversation about the terror of not knowing who you'll be on the other side, and the people who believed for them until they could believe it themselves.